Composite Materials Carbon Fibre Noob [Archive] - Toyota MR2 Message Board

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Spork09-25-2006, 03:03 AMHi, I have yet to try carbon fibre (or fibreglass for that matter), but I had a few questions before I get started.
First, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what all the "1k" ,3k","6k", etc means when buying the fabric.
Also I was wondering what weight I should buy. My applications for it are first just going to be test parts, then I plan on making: A small spoiler (wing), a nonfunctional hood scoop, and finally a whole hood. I plan on using epoxy resin (unless someone says not to) and whatever fibre you reccomend.
I was also wondering if I should learn fibrelgass first? Or if it's okay just to jump right into CF. I've read up on this stuff alot, but I have yet to find specific answers on alot of things, so I'm sure I'll have more questions later. Thank you.

~Spork hfmt9309-29-2006, 08:36 PMjust start with cheap fg and learn the procedure. once you get that down you can use what you have learned to do the more expensive and harder to work with cf. get the woven fg to practice with so its more like cf. Spork09-29-2006, 09:08 PMAwesome, I'll try that first and learn by mistake. Thank you for the input :)

Spork Spork10-07-2006, 12:32 AMSadly I do not know what type of fiberglass to get either, is there some sort of ideal for car part fabrication? I found like "Woven Roving" and such.
http://www.fiberglasssite.com seems to have a good selection, and its really cheap compared to CF. Anyone have a reccomendation as to what I should buy? Is this good
http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/Detail?no=19 or is it too lightweight or what? turboguy10-07-2006, 06:09 PMYour going the right way starting with fiberglass instead of cf. What you should buy greatly depends on what your making. When it comes to making a part out of a mold (or making a mold for that matter) chopped strand glass is the way to go. You can cut it into smaller pieces to form around the more complex shapes and still easily bond to itself. Also, it builds much quicker (chopped strand is typically thicker than woven) Lastly, mat is normally stronger than woven glass too. The mat is a multi-directional fabric. The randomness of the glass strands help support in many directions. A woven fabric is bi-directional.

You will find that things such as hoods, wings, bumpers, etc. are made from chopped strand. Either from a chopper gun that sprays the glass/resin mix into a mold (lower quality and often oversaturation leading to thick or brittle areas) The other way is hand laid. This is much higher quality, but also more time consuming. You can easily control the amount of resin and glass that you put in a particular area. This also helps fitment since the part is one uniform thickness and cures at the same speed. Higher end companies like Border or Greddy/Trust hand lay their parts.

I'm sorry I went off on a tangent like that. I do that alot. I hope I kind of answered your question: FG mat is cheap and easy to get good strong results. Spork10-07-2006, 06:41 PMThat's very good to know, thank you turboguy.

I bought some weaved FG and I really want to get started, I was looking at epoxy resins (from uscomposites) and I was thinking about getting the thin 635 resin, but I saw a few posts mentioning their Kleer Kote, I was wondering if this stuff is any good for part fabrication, or you just add it to the top of a finished product to make it look nice?

Best Regards,
Spork MR2-M111-05-2006, 08:48 PMThere is some good info posted here. I purchased my goods at the local fiberglass store near me (yes there really is one). The guy sold me some Fiberbond Polyester resin, it is designed for laminating. Since I am repairing some major cracks and small stress cracks this has been working well. I bought both the woven cloth and the stranded, I used woven at first but after reading suggestions from previous post I tried the stranded and it seems to work the best for the contours I am repairing. I have attached links to the work I am doing if interested. The pictures arent that great and this is only the first layer for these spots.

MR2-M1

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=1716

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=1719

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=1718 turboguy11-05-2006, 08:54 PMIt looks like your repairs are going well. I can't wait to see when you are done and painted. Thumbs up buddy!! :D Spork11-06-2006, 07:47 PMGlad to see some input, I hope your repairs are going better than my fiberglass adventure. I can't manage to get FG to form how I want it, and have ended up sticky/frusterated, but so far I've had success with my final products. I will try some actual parts when I get time here.

Spork hfmt9311-07-2006, 01:15 PMGlad to see some input, I hope your repairs are going better than my fiberglass adventure. I can't manage to get FG to form how I want it, and have ended up sticky/frusterated, but so far I've had success with my final products. I will try some actual parts when I get time here.

Spork

How are you trying to form it? what shape are you trying to make? Spork11-07-2006, 09:11 PMWell, I just wanted to get a feel for it, so I started by laminating clipboard (yes, :lol: I failed at laminating a flat surface)

The real problem was that I couldn't get it to wrap around edges/corners (just like a 90 degree) to make it look professional. Aside from that, I ended up with an epoxied brush, tried to was it off, but i guess i didn't get all of it. What do you use to clean the brush after using epoxy on it? Acetone?

I'm going to try the kleer kote this weekend, maybe that will go better.

Spork Acet11-07-2006, 10:03 PMAlright here are some little tips as to how to do work with fiber glass and bondo. Learned it all from experience. So lets start.

As well as you all know, in United States, the more something costs the better it is. Using cheap Fiber Glass Resin(FGR) and bondo will do the work and will last long only if done right. Of course you can't compare the $10 can of FGR to $50 can of FGR because the $50 FGR has a lot of better qualities such as faster and harder drying and easier sanding. Same goes to Bondo.

Lets say that you have a hole the size of a softball (my case) in your rear bumper. In order to fix the hole, you will need the following items:

1 small can of FGR(includes harnener)
1 can of bondo compound (includes harnener)
1 pack of THIN CLOTH-LIKE fiber glass material.
1 small brush for painting
1 Ziplodk container (plastic)
Glue Gun
Glue stick(s) like 50 sticks for $1
Scissors
Sandpaper
Rubber GLOVES!!!
Rag
Tools to remove the bumper
Extention Cord
Chair

Alright so lets begin by pluging in the extention cord outside and then pluging in the glue gun into the extension cord. Feel free to pull out a chair that you can sit on. Now that that's done, you take off the bumper. That shouldn't be hard unless your IQ is below a 10 and if it is, I'm very sorry :) Anyways place the bumper outsize so it stands up on its own and pull up a chair. PUT ON THE GLOVES! IT HELPS! Take the Scissors and the FG CLOTH Material (MUST GET THIN CLOTH, trust me it makes your life easier) and cut the Material so it covers up the hole from the inside of the bumper and has extra 2 inches on the sides. Once that is done, take the glue gun that is already hot and hot glue the cloth to the inside of the bumper. If the cloth that you bought it good, you should feel the glue coming through the cloth as you press on it. Let the glue dry and then make sure that the cloth is not moving. Now take the Ziplock container and pour in about 5 ounses of FGR. Then take out the hardnener and pour in 50 drops. Now stir the mixture with the brush and begin applying the FG on the cloth with the brush. You have 10 minutes so don't go and take a crap or something when you mix in the hardener. Make sure that the cloth is covered with FG and spread all the FG you have onto the cloth. Wait for about 30 minutes or until the FG becomes sticky. Once its sticky, mix 5 OZs again with 50 drops and put on the 2nd coat of FG. If you have the good FG cloth, then 2 is plenty. Let it dry over night, OUTSIDE. The FGR is extremely bad for you if inhaled so I use the mask but its your choice.

The next day, take the bumper and assemble comfortably in the chair. Take the Bondo compound and mix in the hardener. Use about 1 inch of hardener for Cigaret box of bondo. THE LESS HARDENER YOU USE THE LONGER IT WILL TAKE BUT THE HARDER IT WILL DRY! Flip the bumper to the outside and apply the bondo as needed to cover up the hole. Spread it out evenly. I know its hard. Let it dry for good 2 hours. Better save then sorry. Then take out the Sandpaper. You can use a sander or hand sand it but sander is much faster. Apply additional coats of bondo as needed. Use the 40 Grid to straighten it out and then get finer and finer grid to 2000. Once its all smooth, take a QTip and fill in the little air bubble holes with bondo. Let it dry and then carefully sand it down. Once its all sanded down and is as smooth as baby's ass, you're done with the hole.

Then comes the painting part. You can get it painted professionaly or you can get it painted professionaly unless you are good at painting....

BUMPER IN THE WORKS
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02290.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02291.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02295.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02294.jpg

I'll Post pics tomorrow of my after pics. Acet11-07-2006, 10:10 PMActually i'll get some pics of the bumper right now...its about %70 done.



they're uploading to photobucket.com

should be ready by 10:30pm Acet11-07-2006, 10:23 PMHere it is about 70% done..

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02313.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02312.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02311.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02310.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02309.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b166/skyline4001/Weird%20Stuff/DSC02308.jpg Acet11-07-2006, 10:27 PMIt will be done tomorrow. Gairloch11-13-2006, 07:03 PMGot finished project pics? Acet11-13-2006, 08:45 PMYeah I'll get ya'll some finished pics tomorrow. Its still primered black but its on the car. Looks legit now. hfmt9311-26-2006, 09:32 PMWell, I just wanted to get a feel for it, so I started by laminating clipboard (yes, :lol: I failed at laminating a flat surface)

The real problem was that I couldn't get it to wrap around edges/corners (just like a 90 degree) to make it look professional. Aside from that, I ended up with an epoxied brush, tried to was it off, but i guess i didn't get all of it. What do you use to clean the brush after using epoxy on it? Acetone?

I'm going to try the kleer kote this weekend, maybe that will go better.

Spork

You are not supposede to get it to go around 90 degree bends. Take some of your resin and mix it with some finely cut fiberglass fibers. this will thicken up and dry up the mixture. Take this "flox" and put it in the corners. Use a popsicle stick or something to get a smooth rounded radius instead of an abrupt 90 degree angle.
Put your glass over the layup and then wet it out with your resin.

As for the brushes: Put them in the freezer, it will stop the resin from hardening. Personally i would just get the dollar brushes and throw them away. The only thing i reuse is the squeege and just wash it off at the end of the night. Jochen11-29-2006, 04:18 AMDo you want to learn how to work with CARBON FIBER ??

=> Check it out, CF in 1 hour

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8801536764731290932&q=carbon+fiber

Very well explained !! olda$$85supra12-06-2006, 06:05 PMGreat job on the bumper so far. I was gonna put in some advice that I have gotten over time. The big thing you learn is that you can use almost anything to get the shape you want for something. MDF wood, PVC pipe, cans, for sale signs (the plastic ones), cardboard, other bodykits, non expanding foam, etc. For doing one off stuff its common to see foam used. You can use the sheets of foam and stack it to get a block of foam, you can use the non expanding to make layers or you can use the two part foam or AB foam to fill in large areas. Some people that are going to make molds off of the foam afterwards usually rough out the shape and then coat it with a layer of glass to seal it from the bondo that would be used to finish off the surface. Some of the foams from spraycans melt with the chemical compounds of fiberglass and bondo, I think it has to do with something in the hardener so you should check this first before spending a lot of time on the shape to find it melt with fiberglass.

Brushes are nice to apply resin, its what I primarly use for my projects. You can also get rollers up at some stores for doing fg and also I've seen people use thick gloves to spred resin. I usually go up to walmart and get a bunch of those 50 cent brushes instead of wasting a lot of time and money to clean them. The way to clean them I've used is to use acetone. Set up three coffee cans with acetone filled up half way and put the brushes in the first can. After they've soaked for awhile then take them out, clean off the large material and put them in the second can. Same process goes to for the thrid can. after that you should have a pretty clean. After a while of this your going to have to get rid of the acetone in can one and rotate it to can threes position with new acetone. This same method can be used for bondo spreaders to clean filler off. If you get to the spreader before it dries you can usually just scrape the excess filler off and then wipe it clean with a rag that has acetone on it.

When I first did my car I used the resin from up at pepboys and autozone and the bondo brand bondo too. It stood up pretty well but was rather crappy to work with compared to the stuff I use now. I'm sure I can spend a lot more on better products but for now I like the stuff I use. You might be able to find someone around in your area that does large quantities of fiberglass products and they usually have a pretty good quality resin that they might be inclined to sell to you for a bit above wholesale.

Different sorts of bondos are available. Evercoat makes a pretty good body filler and a wide variety of styles. Some that have large strands in them to add strength to a object, rage is a nice filler and so is the z grip for filling in different materials such as fg or metal as far as I know. You can use 40 and 80 grit paper to sand bondo or theres also filler files, i think there called, they look like a cheese grater. Some are flat and some are curved which help to get differetn shapes and angles. It helps to use these when the filler is still in the drying stage since it will be easier to cut througha rubbery filler then a rock hard one. This is only a good idea if its a rough shape and not in the final stages of work. Large sanding blocks help to smooth out areas and get them flat rather than a small hand pad for a fender or long sideskirt. The final stages are still a bit of a gray area for me. So many people have techniques to finish sand a part that I wouldn't know where to begin. A guide coat helps out alot with finding high and low spots. Also a 2k primer can help to build and level a surface and also is easier to sand then body filler.

All this just takes time and control. If you really want to get something done then I'm sure you can put up with making mistakes and fixing them. Mistakes usually seem to be the best teachers anyway. Also I just put this up here to show what I have done in the past and so if something comes across as wrong I'd fix it so that someone doesn't get the wrong information Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.